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post #1 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Nutsert hell- need recommendation

Me and Terrahawk decided to install my EVO Quarter Armor today. Yesterday I ran to Harbor Freight and picked up a nutsert install tool.

So we got 2 holes drilled and the nutserts installed. But during the 2nd one, a part of the tool bent. I was afraid that might happen since the nutsert tool came with some weak looking aluminum nutserts, and the ones that came with the armor appear to be brass. And the nutserts that came with the armor require a whole lot more effort to crimp- takes a lot of strength to get them to crimp especially compared to the one that came with the tool.

Off to Harbor Freight to return the tool and pick up a different model. We get back with the new tool, drill hole #3, insert the nutsert, and we can't get it to work at all- the handles are so far apart that you can't squeeze them at all. We fought and with it and could only get the nutsert partly crimped. It became obvious that this tool just wasn't going to cut it either.

So its a wash for the day (actually for a few weeks since I won't have free time to deal with it). I now have 3 new holes in my jeep- 2 have good nutserts, one has a loose nutsert.

So apparently I'm going to have to order a nutsert tool to handle this job. I did a search online and see so many out there. I don't want to throw any more money out the window buying another crappy one. Looking for recommendations of a tool that isn't going to cost me a fortune, but will get the job as easily as possible (there are 35 nutserts left to install)

For reference-
This is the first one I bought: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1210

and this is the 2nd one I bought: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94100

Those were the only 2 the store carries.

Last edited by N2rock; 05-17-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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post #2 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 03:43 PM
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post #3 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 04:27 PM
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Use some threaded rod, a couple of nuts, and a steel spacer. Run a nut down the rod far enough to accomodate the nutsert and spacer. Then thread the rod into the nutsert, use a backup nut if the nutsert is aluminum. Hold the rod with vicegrips and turn the nut on the spacer to compress the nutsert. The spacer is really a bushing to keep from jacking up the face of the nutsert, a few washers will work too. It's not the easiest but it works well. I don't know how big your nutserts are but I've used this setup on 5/16.

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post #4 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Broncojohn View Post
Use some threaded rod, a couple of nuts, and a steel spacer. Run a nut down the rod far enough to accomodate the nutsert and spacer. Then thread the rod into the nutsert, use a backup nut if the nutsert is aluminum. Hold the rod with vicegrips and turn the nut on the spacer to compress the nutsert. The spacer is really a bushing to keep from jacking up the face of the nutsert, a few washers will work too. It's not the easiest but it works well. I don't know how big your nutserts are but I've used this setup on 5/16.
Yeah, the armor came with an install nut/bolt too. Doing it that way is so hard and time consuming, and these nutserts are stout. Not really interested in doing 35 of them that way.
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post #5 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 04:39 PM
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Sounds like your using a nutsert tool on Rivnuts. See if you can find a rivnut setting tool.

-Chris

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post #6 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like your using a nutsert tool on Rivnuts. See if you can find a rivnut setting tool.
Is there a difference?

I searched nutsert and rivnuts, and found pictures of both that look exactly like what I have. Are these inter-changable names, or is there a real difference?

And if there is a difference, how can I tell which type I have
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post #7 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 05:03 PM
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Both tools were really special. One bent to crap and the freaking pivot wouldn't stay seated on the second. Both = the definition of frustrating!

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post #8 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 05:11 PM
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Glad you got yours first....

I have no idea what to do about the rivnutsertamigigs.

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post #9 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 05:13 PM
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I used the nut and bolt deal when installing my fab four sliders. I used a 3\8dr impact gun to spin them in. used the 3\8's so i didn't over torque them. Also put red lock tite on outside of nutserts for extra security.
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post #10 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr.RonGilbert View Post
Glad you got yours first....

I have no idea what to do about the rivnutsertamigigs.

Bodyguy.... what says ye
Starting to be a common theme- you let me be the guinea pig and fight thru the hassles
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 07:22 PM
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Starting to be a common theme- you let me be the guinea pig and fight thru the hassles


Take photos... and let me borrow the new rivet tool!!!
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post #12 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 07:30 PM
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Glad you got yours first....

I have no idea what to do about the rivnutsertamigigs.

Bodyguy.... what says ye
unfortunately, I think there is a reason Bodyguy cut his corners out and welded on the panels ilo of the nutserts.
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post #13 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2rock View Post
Is there a difference?

I searched nutsert and rivnuts, and found pictures of both that look exactly like what I have. Are these inter-changable names, or is there a real difference?

And if there is a difference, how can I tell which type I have
There is a fairly large difference. Nutserts are light duty.
Rivnut (McMaster Carr calls them Rivet nuts) on the left, nutsert on the right.


The proper ones to use for your application are Rivnuts. The "nut and bolt" install method is the most cost effective. There are some nice rivnut tools out there, check out www.aircraftspruce.com and www.mcmaster.com

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post #14 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 08:45 PM
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Nutsert tool. You can make one with a scrap piece of metal as well. If you take a piece of steel 1" by 6". Drill the same size hole as the bolt you are using in one end. Put a slight bend in the metal just past the hole you drilled(do not bend at the hole. This should be flat.) This bent part is your handle. Insert the appropriate bolt into your new tool, then hand tighten the nutsert onto the bolt. Insert it into the Jeep hole. Use a socket wrench to tighten the bolt, crushing the nutsert. Make sure you put some oil on the bolt to keep it from breaking. As you can see in the picture I broke the bolt off inside the nutsert. This was a pain to remove. I quickly replaced the bolt with a grade 8. The tool above is a little tricky because you have to put a wrench on the black nut(tool) with one hand and keep it still while tightening it with a socket wrench in the other hand.


The Harbor Freight Tool you are using is designed for this.

Hope this helps.

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post #15 of 37 Old 05-17-2009, 09:40 PM
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I had the same problem with my Poison Spyder Rocker Guards. I went to Lowes and bought several different length grade 8 bolts to replace the bolt in the tool that came with my rockers. I found one that would get the nutsert tight and not damage the treads. I also chased the threads on each nutsert with a tap to make sure that the bolts would thread easily. It was a pita but the results were worth it.

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post #16 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The Harbor Freight Tool you are using is designed for this.

Hope this helps.
Sorry- I do know the difference between nutserts/rivnuts and pop rivets. And the tools from harbor freight are for nutserts. Well, the 2nd one purchased is a 3-in-1 tool designed for both pop rivets and nutserts. The first tool I bought was for nutserts only.
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post #17 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
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There is a fairly large difference. Nutserts are light duty.
Rivnut (McMaster Carr calls them Rivet nuts) on the left, nutsert on the right.


The proper ones to use for your application are Rivnuts. The "nut and bolt" install method is the most cost effective. There are some nice rivnut tools out there, check out www.aircraftspruce.com and www.mcmaster.com
If your picture is correct, than I do have Rivnuts. However, if you google nutserts you will find pictures of nutserts that are identical to the rivnut in your picture

For example: http://www.imperialinc.com/grp270.shtml Scroll down the page and you'll see one (part #8841 thru 8859).

And then on this page: http://www.homeprofasteners.com/inde...pshop&Itemid=6 It actually calls them "nutserts rivnuts". Which leads me to believe that "nutserts" is just a generic name, and "rivnuts" is a brand specific name. Sorta like "facial tissues" vs "kleenex".
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post #18 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 06:11 AM
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You can make a nutsert tool with a bolt, oversize nut, star washer and plain washer. put the washer on the bolt first, then the oversize nut, followed by the star washer. Hold the oversize nut with a wrench and tighten the bolt. The star washer will prevent the nutsert from rotating and the washer will allow the nut head to rotate freely.
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post #19 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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You can make a nutsert tool with a bolt, oversize nut, star washer and plain washer. put the washer on the bolt first, then the oversize nut, followed by the star washer. Hold the oversize nut with a wrench and tighten the bolt. The star washer will prevent the nutsert from rotating and the washer will allow the nut head to rotate freely.
Yeah, but doing 35 nutserts like that will be exhausting and would just take way too much time.

Fortunately I won't be able to get back to this project for a few weeks, so I have time to locate/order/deliver a tool to speed up the process.
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post #20 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:00 AM
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post #21 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Very nice! But it would be cheaper to just hire someone to install these for me
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post #22 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:17 AM
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Too bad its 650 bucks, it's pretty cool.

N2rock - I'm not sure what size you are installing, but I have seen tools that look like a rivet gun, but they are made for nutserts. I think they they will only do up to certain sizes tho.

Do you have a good hammer drill? You could use the bolt/nut method that Phil suggested with it.

Jason
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post #23 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Too bad its 650 bucks, it's pretty cool.

N2rock - I'm not sure what size you are installing, but I have seen tools that look like a rivet gun, but they are made for nutserts. I think they they will only do up to certain sizes tho.
Look at the tools linked in my first post. I think those are what you are talking about (look like rivet guns). The first worked fine, we just bent the damn thing while putting in the 2nd nutsert.

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Do you have a good hammer drill? You could use the bolt/nut method that Phil suggested with it.
Nope, no hammer drill. And the bolt/nut method- yeah it works, but these nutserts (or rivnuts) are extremely hard to do that way. Would take forever to do 35 of them.
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post #24 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:37 AM
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And the bolt/nut method- yeah it works, but these nutserts (or rivnuts) are extremely hard to do that way. Would take forever to do 35 of them.
Well,

We can drill all the holes and split the work between you, me, George, and Timmay each. 8 rivnuts each...no problem.

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post #25 of 37 Old 05-18-2009, 08:49 AM
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That's what I get for not clicking links huh.

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